Letters to a Friend

“Hear the other side.”

St. Augustine of Hippo AD 354-430: “De Duabus Animabis Manicheos”

What follows is a discussion thread between some U.P. poicas on the topic of immigration. The source of this interchange was a Youtube link posted on GF’s facebook ridiculing John McCain’s idea that more focus on building a fence between the southwest states and Mexico is a critical element in controlling illegal immigration.

Per usual, there are no edits.

AR: “Illegals have taken virtually all the farming jobs in the southwest, virtually all of the construction jobs, most of the line work in factories and a good portion of trucking. They have also taken over virtually all of the gang operations, the murders, rapes, robberies, drug dealing and methamphetamine production, and they make up approximately 40... See More% of the prison population here in California. They love liberal states with generous social benefits, and many are talking about Michigan as the next land of opportunity. I’m sure you guys will be welcoming them with open arms.”

GF: ”Actually, hard-working 'illegals' will do work that others won't do if you want to generalize. Building a fence will not work, nor will it stem the tide of the open border. I also find your posts mean-spirited and personally insulting. Don't bother voicing your internet wisdom here anymore dude.”

RT: "Bigotry may be roughly defined as the anger of men who have no opinions."

G.K. Chesterton 1874-1936: "Heretics" (1905)

PS: AR, perhaps we might put these illegals to work promoting a scam whereby we put them to work putting up phony TV satellite dishes by which we might bilk our unsuspecting friends and neighbors out of their hard earned money. It's the American way, dude!

GF: ”Randy, I think I may need to take one of your classes to gestate this.”

RT: ”The point of Chesterton's quote is that the teabagger's rely on a rhetoric of fear and xenophobia rather than logic and tolerance, on negative reaction rather than reasoned opinion. As for the PS:, there's a backstory here, young man.”

Peace - Randy.

AR: "Randall, I live in a mixed neighborhood, work with diverse ethnic groups, live in a city that is primarily Mexican/Mexican-American, in a state whose largest ethnic group is Latino. I have worked elbow to elbow with Mexicans, legal and illegal. Mexican-Americans and illegal Mexicans were at my house yesterday. Today there will be party here with a significant Mexican-American presence. You live in city and state that is overwhelmingly white. You work in a cloistered, rarified atmosphere with other white people, far from the realities and problems of illegal immigration, the southwest or working-class Americans. Your assertion that my opposition to illegal immigration is based on bigotry is patently absurd. My opposition is based on a number of things, here are the top four: 1) Illegal immigration drives down wages and restricts opportunities for the poorest of America’s citizens; 2) A country that does not defend its borders will soon cease to be a country; 3) Allowing unfettered illegal immigration is unfair to the millions of immigrants who go thorough legal channels to get here; and 4) Illegal immigrants cost taxpayers in border states billions in social services and in the housing violent felons in prisons.

Last, if the facts were on your side, I’m sure you’d argue facts. But since they aren’t, you’ve chosen name-calling instead. That’s disappointing coming from an old friend."

AR: “GF, words have meanings. If you look up the word “generalize you’ll find that it doesn’t fit my comments. I was quite specific. You’re right about one thing though, illegals do many jobs that others don’t want to do, field work in particular. But they also take jobs that many other DO want to do, such as construction, trucking and factory work. It’s too bad your sympathies do not extend to unemployed American citizens of all ethnic groups who would like to be working at these jobs right now . . . dude. I find your attitude mean-spirited and insulting.”

GF: “ the reality is 'they' don't 'take' jobs...someone is illegally hiring them. I will not be baited into an argument of non-rational thought. I know from observing family members who wants to work and who sits on their ass waiting for their check. If someone leaves their hometown, walks through a desert, pays a coyote $5000 to get them into a slave wage job to send money home to feed their family it reminds me how strong and fearless people can be.

Again-JOHN MCCAIN is a two-faced laffing stock spineless jellyfish who will latch onto any sordid idea to win...WIN WIN WIN. Sarah Palin?? That's who he picks to help run our country?!! Build a fence?? HAHAHAHA...whatta putz!

The point of me posting this video is for my friends to see this and LAUGH AT JOHN MCCAIN the ignoramus.

RT: “In your first post, AR, you used the phrase, "they love liberal states with generous social benefits." Yes, Al, "words have meanings." And oftentimes those meanings are simply code for a not-so-subtle ultra-conservative agenda. You suggest that things are somehow better for we out-of-touch liberals who live "in a cloistered, rarified atmosphere with other white people." As if Detroit is made up of white people," and that the realities of crime would go away in an all white world. Your "white people" reference is telling, since it suggests that the real problem is a deep-seated white, middle-class fear of a changing demographic where citizens of color will soon be the majority in this country. Note the way you easily elide the terms "they" and "liberal," setting up a convenient rhetorical polarity between an "us" and "them" in which the poor (those who crave generous social benefits), who are by extension of color, and those progressives (liberals of every stripe) who seek a color-blind social justice for all, comprise the "THEM," and you, who see socialism as an not only an invitation to illegals but an insidious government conspiracy and grave threat to the American way, as the "US." And that's what it's really about - us against them.

Best - Randy